Posts by Doug Mason

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

Doug Mason

Thank you for your considered thoughts on my presentation. I will consider these when I make my update

It seems to me that we – and I include myself – base our ideas on what we think was in the disciples’ minds, such as their understanding of “parousia”.

It cannot be denied that the term “parousia” was in common use at the time to describe the physical arrival of a dignitary to a town, which required great preparations for the coming. Also, the word parousia is used in the NT to describe a person’s physical presence.

I would appreciate comments on the following thoughts about what the disciples had in mind when they asked Jesus about his parousia:

1. Later events show that the disciples did not at that time understand that it would be an invisible presence.

2. They looked for the Messiah to deliver the Jewish nation from bondage to Rome and to display glorious power in doing so. In other words, they looked for him to do at his first presence things he was actually to do at his second presence.

3. They did not appreciate that he would not sit on an earthly throne.

4. They had no idea that Jesus would rule as a glorious spirit from the heavens.

5. They therefore did not know that his second presence would be invisible.

6. They knew the prophecy of Daniel 7:13, 14 would be fulfilled somehow, but wondered how.

7. So the disciples in effect asked: ‘What are we to look for, so as not to miss out, so as not to be blind, as the Pharisees are to your presence now, even though you are bodily present and still not recognized as the Messiah to them?’

8. Jesus did not answer in so many words that he would be invisibly present.

9. Jesus outlined evidences that would make his presence recognizable, whether visible or invisible.

Doug

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

Doug Mason

From your helpful comments, I can see there are areas I need to expand and explain more clearly. I will try to respond to your questions. If I am still not clear, please tell me.
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My intention is to consider Jesus’ answer as if the reader was one of the disciples sitting at his feet on the Mount of Olives. What did their questions mean to them, what did his answer mean to them? If a person wants to derive a secondary meaning, then when this primary meaning has been determined, any secondary application must directly relate.

The presentation is intended for anyone. A complex presentation hides the critical issues and provides opportunities for digression. I certainly like to stimulate discussion. Each person must live in accordance with their own beliefs, and if we disagree, we can still remain the firmest of friends. Other people’s views help sharpen my own, and help remove the fat from my thinking.
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It should be enlightening to compare Mark 13 (and other parts of Mark) as sources for Matthew 24.
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Key issues I touched on include:

Jesus was talking about the temple that they were looking at.
The disciples expected that the temple’s destruction would bring about Jesus’ parousia, his glorious arrival as king.
Jesus warned his followers that people who pointed to wars, earthquakes, and such were deceivers, and must not be heeded.
There is only one gospel, and it was preached to the whole world at the time.

Jesus was asked about the Temple and he answered them about the Temple. To the disciples, the destruction of the Temple meant the end of Judaism, the end of the Jewish “Age”.

They did not know that Jesus was going away – look at their last question just before his ascension – Acts 1: 6-7 (So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”)

The disciples thought that the end of the Jewish Age would finally result in Jesus being openly declared and recognized as the redeeming King that the Jews had longed for. Matthew uses the word “parousia” which was a word that speaks of the grand entry of a leading dignitary, such as a Governor or a King. Their parousias required much preparation of the town they were visiting, even building new roads, and the minting of a special coin. It was a grand event. This is how the disciples envisaged the destruction of the Temple and the ensuing parousia. It was not a prophecy, it was a question in the mouth of the disciples in Matthew’s account.

Another key issue is Jesus’ admonition to “beware of deceivers”, hence the title of the presentation. To me, Jesus’ told his disciples to beware of people who would be spreading stories about wars, earthquakes and such, as if they were the sign which alerted followers to the destruction of Jerusalem. Rather, said Jesus, watch out for the Roman armies when they encamp about the city.

Jesus said that the destruction would happen within their generation, but they did not know this meant it would take place in another 40 years.
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If someone wants to make a secondary application, then the parallels require us to still beware of deceivers who make use of wars, earthquakes, and so on. These are not to be believed, even if they do say they are “Christ”, the Anointed.
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I use PowerPoint 97 to prepare these presentations. Since it’s an old version without password protection, I convert them to PDF files, to prevent people changing and hence misrepresenting me. I’m a retired soldering trainer, who started as a technical trainer (telecommunications, electronics) in 1966. The Japanese love for pictures helped me develop my love for that format.
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I think that the differences in details between Mark, Matthew and Luke are most interesting and require further thought.
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So as you can see, I focus on these verses in their application to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. I thought the pictures would indicate this.

Nevertheless, I want to digress into the claims regarding 1947 and the Zionist State of Israel. Since my ancestry is Jewish, I am very aware of the activities during the late 1930s and early 1940s. My mother’s parents were gassed at Chelmno on 10 May 1942 in the back of a “special” truck. My father’s parents were shot dead on 26 May 1942 near Minsk, along with their 26-year old daughter and her 2-year old son.

My parents fled to England, where my father was quickly imprisoned for a while by the stupid English, after having been imprisoned by the Nazis in Dachau.

My father’s sister and her family made Aliyah in 1939. Her eldest son was shot dead while fighting in the War of Independence. There is a memorial to him on the Israeli government’s web site. Many of her family’s descendants still live in Israel, including a noted artist in Jerusalem. I have a cousin who has lived for decades in a Kibbutz near Galilee. I have another cousin in France who is a deeply committed Zionist.

Not one of these Jews has ever raised the notion of the “Son of Man”, of Jesus Christ, of salvation though his sacrifice. Zionism is a political movement, supported by misdirected Christians who read Scripture that was intended to be applied 2000 years ago, not later. There is no other gospel, which I deliberately included in my presentation.

Doug

12

Looking for Rose Ball's grave

by Doug Mason in

does anyone know where rose ball henninges is buried?

i know she died in 1950, aged 81, in preston, victoria, australia, but i have drawn a blank looking for her headstone.

i have already asked the henninges people here, and they could not help me.

Doug Mason

Merry M!

Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you so much,

Doug

12

Looking for Rose Ball's grave

by Doug Mason in

does anyone know where rose ball henninges is buried?

i know she died in 1950, aged 81, in preston, victoria, australia, but i have drawn a blank looking for her headstone.

i have already asked the henninges people here, and they could not help me.

Doug Mason

Does anyone know where Rose Ball Henninges is buried? I know she died in 1950, aged 81, in Preston, Victoria, Australia, but I have drawn a blank looking for her headstone. I have already asked the Henninges people here, and they could not help me.

I know where Ernest Henninges is buried (b. Cleveland, Ohio 12 Jul 1871, d Melbourne 3 Feb 1939) and as far as I know, Rose is not located with him.

Doug

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

Doug Mason

I know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of Matthew 24/ Mark 13/ Luke 21.

I have prepared a Study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.

The address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Beware_Deceivers.pdf

Thanks,

Doug

27

Did Jesus really die on a cross?

by moomanchu in

believe it or not this was the very very begining of my demise as a dub.. i picked the simplest thing that dubs disagree with christians on and i thought surely i could come to a conclusion as to wether dubs were right or christendom was right.i wanted to start building my foundation of faith in them.. i can't believe they are still using this stupid illustration of the loved one murdered by the weapon illustration!.

idiots, jesus wasn't murdered he gave his life ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

they have this on their site.. http://www.watchtower.org/e/200604a/article_01.htm.

Doug Mason

In my previous Post, I said that the picture of the man tied to a pole is only one of several from the book by Justus Lipsius. (The WTS provides only the one drawing from Lipsius' book.)

I also referred to the discovery of the body of a man who had been crucified.

I have placed evidence on my web site that support my assertions.

Go to: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/new_world_translation.html

Then scroll down the page.

At the lower part of the page, you will find three files to download:
one provides pictures from Justus Lipsius' book,
the other two files describe the discovery of the crucified man. He died about 7 AD in Jerusalem.

If my instructions are not clear enough -- tell me.

Doug

3

Invented insertions of "Jehovah" to NT...

by MrsF in

im hoping some one here has already compiled a list of all the places they put it in where not in original scriptures.

Doug Mason

In addition, I prepared a Study that considers the NWT translator's inconsistencies, in that he omitted "Jehovah" at places where his "rules" require him to do so.

http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Translating_with_prejudice.pdf

Doug

3

Invented insertions of "Jehovah" to NT...

by MrsF in

im hoping some one here has already compiled a list of all the places they put it in where not in original scriptures.

Doug Mason

About 20 years ago, I wrote the following. It might help.

http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Witnessing_the_Name.pdf

Doug

27

Did Jesus really die on a cross?

by moomanchu in

believe it or not this was the very very begining of my demise as a dub.. i picked the simplest thing that dubs disagree with christians on and i thought surely i could come to a conclusion as to wether dubs were right or christendom was right.i wanted to start building my foundation of faith in them.. i can't believe they are still using this stupid illustration of the loved one murdered by the weapon illustration!.

idiots, jesus wasn't murdered he gave his life ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

they have this on their site.. http://www.watchtower.org/e/200604a/article_01.htm.

Doug Mason

The WTS should be honest about that picture of a man nailed to a pole.

It comes from Justus Lipsius' book De Cruce Liber Primus, which contains numerous pictures of various methods -- upside down, St Andrews cross, etc., etc., etc.

After investigating the various methods, Lipsius concluded that the conventional method of a pole with a cross-piece, arms outstretched, was the correct version.

When the body of a crucified man was discovered a few years ago, it revealed that his feet had been placed on a board, knees bent and a nail went through both ankles. The nails were through his wrists, since nails in the hands would have torn through under the weight of the body.

The cross is not a Christian symbol, nor Jewish, but a Roman implement. So many were killed by them in this manner that forests were denuded.

Doug

57

How ethical is it to sow DOUBT in the minds of sincere Jehovah's Witnesses?

by nicolaou in

we know that we can't always take the direct approach and we know that even a short, reasonable discussion is often out of the question with jw's we may love dearly so we often try to place a little doubt in their minds.

we want them to start questioning cherished beliefs.. is this fair of us?

are we placing our our own agendas ahead of their needs?

Doug Mason

Nic,

When witnessing to a JW, we must ask ourselves "What do we want to achieve?"

To me, there is no value in wanting to prove that I am "right" and the JW is "wrong". There is no value in trying to change them to my religion.

What then are we trying to do? Firstly, I hope it is to bring freedom from mental manipulation, freedom from an ongoing doubt, fear and a sense of guilt -- and these are features of organized religion.

Secondly, I would hope we want to help them have a normal relationship with others, within their family and with society at large.

Thirdly, if they want a religious experience, to point them to a personal relationship with God, one that is built on confidence and assurance. Romans, Galatians and 1 John are critically important.

In Romans, we are told that salvation is a free gift, given on the basis of faith, and this provides a forensic peace, regardless of our emotions and feelings. Salvation is not based on knowledge, eschatology, prophetic visions, exegetical skills, understanding of theology (monotheism, etc.), but is based solely on the faith relationship with God. God is quite capable of saving a person who is a JW. In any case every individual has doctrinal errors.

In the end, it has to be the JW's own decision, for in the end, each of us has to give account of themselves. We can but witness to the Gospel and leave the working to God's Spirit.

Doug